highyun 發表於 2006-12-14 19:54:38

“鬀鬚”定係“剃鬚”呢?

啱啱見到殺人王嘅簽名,係用“鬀”。但一直以嚟,我哋都係接受呢個“剃”字。究竟邊個先係正字?佢哋之間究竟係繁簡體嘅關係抑或俗字本字嘅關係,抑或兩個都啱呢?

殺人王 發表於 2006-12-14 23:16:42

<p class="zdct2">剃 字係"鬀"俗字</p><p class="zdct2">鬀字字典解釋如下:</p><p class="zdct2">【說文】??髮也。大人曰髡,小兒曰鬀,盡及身毛曰??。【註】今俗別作剃,非是。</p><p class="zdct2">即係大人剃髪叫髡,細路剃髪叫鬀,剃全身就叫??.可見漢語分工精細</p><p class="zdct2"></p><p>另廣東俗語考都有記</p><p><span style="COLOR: rgb(255,0,0);">鬀</span>音替。俗作剃。『說文』剔髮也。大人曰髠。小兒曰<span style="COLOR: rgb(255,0,0);">—</span>。盡及身毛曰易(髟頭)。</p>
[此帖子已經被作者於2006-12-14 15:17:45編輯過]

dada 發表於 2006-12-14 23:22:15

<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none;"><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-hansi-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">《說文》</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">﹕「</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: PMingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-hansi-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;;">鬀,</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Simsun (Founder Extended)&quot;;">??</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: PMingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-hansi-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;;">髮也。从髟弟聲。大人曰髡,小人曰鬀,盡及身毛曰</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Simsun (Founder Extended)&quot;;">??</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: PMingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-hansi-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;;">。臣鉉等曰:今俗別作剃,非是。</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">」</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt;"><p></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none;"><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-hansi-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">《說文》用「鬀」﹐但係九百年前嘅《龍龕手鏡》已經有個「剃」字﹐都算古色古香<span style="COLOR: black;">有餘。</span></span><span style="COLOR: black; mso-fareast-font-family: MingLiU;"><p></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none;"><span lang="ZH-TW" style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-hansi-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">我唔支持用「</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: PMingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-hansi-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;;">鬀</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-hansi-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">」﹕</span><span style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU; mso-fareast-font-family: MingLiU;"><br/></span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-hansi-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">一、今日「剃」係正字﹔</span><span style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU; mso-fareast-font-family: MingLiU;"><br/></span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-hansi-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">二、如果要跟《說文》﹐就要跟到底﹐「</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: PMingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-hansi-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;;">大人曰髡,小人曰鬀,盡及身毛曰</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: &quot;Simsun (Founder Extended)&quot;;">??</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-hansi-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">」﹔</span><span style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU; mso-fareast-font-family: MingLiU;"><br/></span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-hansi-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">三、我覺得剃同刀</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU; mso-ansi-language: EN-US;">嘅</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-hansi-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">關係﹐比同</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: PMingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-hansi-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;;">髟</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU; mso-ansi-language: EN-US;">嘅</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-hansi-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">關係重要得多﹐有意思得多。</span><span style="COLOR: black; mso-fareast-font-family: MingLiU;"><p></p></span></p>

highyun 發表於 2006-12-15 00:15:43

<p>我都支持用“<font face="MingLiU">剃</font>”,因爲呢個字而家已經廣爲接受,而且本身意義又合適,並唔係錯字。反觀“<span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: pmingliu; mso-ascii-font-family: 'mso-hansi-font-family:';">鬀</span>”,一來未必個個睇得明,二來既然要跟古意,則意思唔準確,只適合“小人”。有啲嘢唔需要用到就會自然退化,正如唐代嘅“馬”有n種講法,而家已經得返一種。正如粵語中嘅大量俗語、歇後語。。。。雖然無奈,不過係事實。</p><p>以上所講“<span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: pmingliu; mso-ascii-font-family: 'mso-hansi-font-family:';">鬀</span>”唔適合,只係話正規用法,當然唔係針對殺人王本人嘅簽名檔啦。</p>

殺人王 發表於 2006-12-15 00:31:37

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>highyun</i>在2006-12-14 16:15:43的發言:</b><br/><p>我都支持用“<font face="MingLiU">剃</font>”,因爲呢個字而家已經廣爲接受,而且本身意義又合適,並唔係錯字。反觀“<span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: pmingliu; mso-ascii-font-family: 'mso-hansi-font-family:';">鬀</span>”,一來未必個個睇得明,二來既然要跟古意,則意思唔準確,只適合“小人”。有啲嘢唔需要用到就會自然退化,正如唐代嘅“馬”有n種講法,而家已經得返一種。正如粵語中嘅大量俗語、歇後語。。。。雖然無奈,不過係事實。</p><p>以上所講“<span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: pmingliu; mso-ascii-font-family: 'mso-hansi-font-family:';">鬀</span>”唔適合,只係話正規用法,當然唔係針對殺人王本人嘅簽名檔啦。</p></div><p>你支唔支持同呢個係咪正字都唔拉更,而且同貼都唔拉更</p><p>自己個貼係問人呢個係咪正字,話咗呢個係正字之後個貼就好似變咗味,變成批評古字.</p><p></p><p></p>
[此帖子已經被作者於2006-12-14 16:33:22編輯過]

highyun 發表於 2006-12-15 01:10:03

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>殺人王</i>在2006-12-14 16:31:37的發言:</b><br/><p>你支唔支持同呢個係咪正字都唔拉更,而且同貼都唔拉更</p><p>自己個貼係問人呢個係咪正字,話咗呢個係正字之後個貼就好似變咗味,變成批評古字.</p><p></p><p></p><br/></div><p></p><p></p><p>我唔覺得變味,成個過程就係我唔知道邊個係正寫,跟住你同dada回答咗呢張帖,我通過分析你哋嘅回答,覺得用“剃”字好,“<span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: pmingliu; mso-ascii-font-family: 'mso-hansi-font-family:';">鬀</span>”唔好。呢個過程有咩問題?點唔拉更法?</p>

余OK 發表於 2006-12-15 04:25:17

  青菜蘿蔔,各有所愛,祇要冇用錯字都可以接受,話知佢係古字定現代字,不過粵協有一套推薦首選用字畀大家參考,唔強迫人人接受,但最好都咪用錯字。

余OK 發表於 2006-12-15 04:25:22

  青菜蘿蔔,各有所愛,祇要冇用錯字都可以接受,話知佢係古字定現代字,不過粵協有一套推薦首選用字畀大家參考,唔強迫人人接受,但最好都咪用錯字。

Wai 發表於 2006-12-15 17:22:02

<p>中國嘅古文字咁多,信都要信權威嘅字典。但唔得斷章取義。</p>

殺人王 發表於 2006-12-16 02:15:47

<p>我嘅意思係本貼有尐離題啫</p>

愛粵者 發表於 2006-12-24 20:53:36

<p>大家只顧查個「鬀」,點解唔查埋個「剃」字係咩意思?</p><p>《康熙字典·剃》他計切。音替。??髮也。《玉篇》:除髮也。亦作鬀。《集韻》:本作??,或作剔。</p><p>嚴格啲講。<br/><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: pmingliu; mso-ascii-font-family: 'mso-hansi-font-family:';">大人曰髡,小人曰鬀,盡及身毛曰</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: ';">??</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: pmingliu; mso-ascii-font-family: 'mso-hansi-font-family:';">。<br/><font size="3">「剃」就一個字就包括髡、鬀、??。<br/><br/>如果殺人王要當自己係「小人」,可以用「鬀」。<br/>但大家都未必當自己係「小人」,所以贊成用「剃」。</font></span></p><p><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: pmingliu; mso-ascii-font-family: 'mso-hansi-font-family:';"><font size="3">以上內容離題否?</font></span></p>

殺人王 發表於 2006-12-31 13:44:43

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>愛粵者</i>在2006-12-24 12:53:36的發言:</b><br/><p>大家只顧查個「鬀」,點解唔查埋個「剃」字係咩意思?</p><p>《康熙字典·剃》他計切。音替。??髮也。《玉篇》:除髮也。亦作鬀。《集韻》:本作??,或作剔。</p><p>嚴格啲講。<br/><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: pmingliu; mso-ascii-font-family: 'mso-hansi-font-family:';">大人曰髡,小人曰鬀,盡及身毛曰</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: ';;;">??</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: pmingliu; mso-ascii-font-family: 'mso-hansi-font-family:';">。<br/><font size="3">「剃」就一個字就包括髡、鬀、??。<br/><br/>如果殺人王要當自己係「小人」,可以用「鬀」。<br/>但大家都未必當自己係「小人」,所以贊成用「剃」。</font></span></p><p><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: pmingliu; mso-ascii-font-family: 'mso-hansi-font-family:';"><font size="3">以上內容離題否?</font></span></p></div><p>嚴格來講,唔通你話我用"鬀"無"剃"嘅意思?每個人用咩字同詞都有佢嘅自由.</p><p>如果用"鬀"係"小人"嘅話,咁樣干涉他人用古字同對他人簽名指三道四更是"真.小人"!!!</p>
[此帖子已經被作者於2006-12-31 5:49:52編輯過]

peterluk 發表於 2007-1-5 06:59:36

一直以來,大家都是用這個剃字,無謂改啦,但,知道其本字,可以增加中文字的詞彙也好.......
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