dada 發表於 2006-12-5 09:12:11

<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none;"><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">《玉篇》﹕「</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: PMingLiU;">瓹</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">,古縣切。瓮底孔下取酒也。」《廣韻》﹕「盆底孔。」</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;"><p></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none;"><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">「盆底孔」或<span style="COLOR: black;">「瓮底孔下取酒也」﹐都解釋唔到「</span></span><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU;">gyun1</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU; mso-ansi-language: EN-US;">嚟</span><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU;">gyun1</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">去</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">」</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU; mso-ansi-language: EN-US;">嘅</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">意思。</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU;"><p></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none;"><span lang="ZH-TW" style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">我曾經</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU; mso-ansi-language: EN-US;">喺</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">幾個帖話「</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">蜎<span style="COLOR: black;">」比較好﹕<br/></span></span><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">http://bbs.cantonese.asia/dispbbs.asp?boardID=117&amp;ID=3735<br/></span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">高級書院</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU;">
                </span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">→</span><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU;"> [</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">轉貼</span><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU;">]</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">生果日報副刊︰今日字</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU; mso-ansi-language: EN-US;">吓</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">你<br/></span><span style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU;">2006-11-2 17:42:42<p></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none;"><span lang="ZH-TW" style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">「蜎</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">」係<span style="COLOR: black;">「蟲行貌」。</span>《字彙》﹕「<span style="COLOR: black;">蜎﹐</span>圭淵切﹐音娟。」</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;"><p></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none;"><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">《詩經.國風.豳風.東山》﹕「蜎蜎者蠋、烝在桑野。」<span style="COLOR: black;">蠋</span>即係蠶。</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;"><p></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none;"><span lang="ZH-TW" style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">《國語辭典》﹕「蜎蜎﹐蟲蠕動屈曲的樣子。詩經.豳風.東山:『蜎蜎者蠋』。</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">」</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;"><p></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">[<span lang="ZH-TW">明</span>]<span lang="ZH-TW">袁宏道《西方合論》﹕「攝受十方一切有情不可思議淨土者,即阿彌陀佛西方淨土。其中所有大功德海,大悲智海,大願力海,若具說者,假使盡十方世界諸佛菩薩聲聞辟支天人鬼畜,下至蜎飛蠕動,及一切無情草木瓦礫鄰虛微塵之類……」</span></span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU;"><p></p></span></p>

殺人王 發表於 2006-12-5 03:29:52

[討論]大家認為邊個係正字?

<p>正字正確認為"瓹"為正字</p><p></p><p></p><p>廣東俗語考</p><p><span style="COLOR: rgb(255,0,0);">瓹</span>音絹。從孔竅出曰<span style="COLOR: rgb(255,0,0);"><span style="COLOR: rgb(255,0,0);">瓹</span></span>。『玉篇』<span style="COLOR: rgb(255,0,0);"><span style="COLOR: rgb(255,0,0);">瓹</span></span>。甕底孔下取酒也。『廣韻』盆底孔也。水從孔出曰<span style="COLOR: rgb(255,0,0);"><span style="COLOR: rgb(255,0,0);">瓹</span></span>。人從孔出亦曰<span style="COLOR: rgb(255,0,0);"><span style="COLOR: rgb(255,0,0);">瓹</span></span>。作動字用。</p><p><br/>不過"最緊要正字"話"</p><p><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: PMingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: Sun-ExtB; mso-hansi-font-family: Sun-ExtB; mso-bidi-font-family: 宋体; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-TW; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">「捐」其實是「鑽」嘅記音字,<span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: PMingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: Sun-ExtB; mso-hansi-font-family: Sun-ExtB; mso-bidi-font-family: 宋体; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-TW; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">「鑽」有兩個讀音,一讀「轉」之陰去聲,此即我們日常嘅讀音;還有一個讀音係「專」</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Sun-ExtB; mso-bidi-font-family: 宋体; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-HK; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">(</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: PMingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: Sun-ExtB; mso-hansi-font-family: Sun-ExtB; mso-bidi-font-family: 宋体; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-TW; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">陰平聲</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Sun-ExtB; mso-bidi-font-family: 宋体; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-HK; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">)</span></span></p><p><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: PMingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: Sun-ExtB; mso-hansi-font-family: Sun-ExtB; mso-bidi-font-family: 宋体; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-TW; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;"><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Sun-ExtB; mso-bidi-font-family: 宋体; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-HK; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;"><font face="細明體" size="5">大家認為點?</font></span></span></p>

余OK 發表於 2006-12-5 03:53:02

<p>  睇嚟呢個字有必要斟酌吓,粵協一向採用「鑽」字版本,若果有更權威更廣為大眾接受嘅意見就睇吓有冇修改嘅需要嘞。</p>

highyun 發表於 2006-12-5 04:48:38

兩個字都覺得可以,真係唔知應該信中大班書院派定係信彭生同俗語考。

Wai 發表於 2006-12-8 02:12:21

<p><font face="PMingLiU" color="#000000" size="2">“「捐」其實是「鑽」的記音字。《說文解字》:「鑽,所以穿也。」「鑽」有兩個讀音,一讀「轉」之陰去聲,此即我們日常的讀音;還有一個讀音是「專」<span lang="ZH-HK">(</span>陰平聲<span lang="ZH-HK">)</span>,如今並不普遍。粵語保留了「專」這個讀音,後來逐漸訛變成「捐」音,經過千百年的口耳相傳,人們把「鑽」字遺忘了。「鑽」既然可平可仄,我們在讀古典詩詞時便須多加留意了。杜甫《秋日荊南述懷三十韻》排律第十三、十四句:「九鑽巴噀火,三螫楚祠雷。」上句的「鑽」要與下句的「螫」<span lang="ZH-HK">(</span>仄聲<span lang="ZH-HK">)</span>平仄相對,是故「鑽」應讀曰「專」。張保胤《又留別同院》七律頸聯:「鶻子背鑽高力士,嬋娟翻畫太真妃。」上句的「鑽」要與下句的「畫」<span lang="ZH-HK">(</span>仄聲<span lang="ZH-HK">)</span>平仄相對,「鑽」也應讀「專」音。秦觀《春日》其四七絕第三、第四句:「滿院柳花寒食後,旋鑽新火爇爐香。」下句的「鑽」要與上句的「院」<span lang="ZH-HK">(</span>仄聲<span lang="ZH-HK">)</span>平仄相對,因此必須讀平聲,即「專」音。”</font></p><p><font face="PMingLiU" color="#6666ff" size="2"><font color="#000000">節選自藝談小築The Fascination of Literation—文化捨趣—粵語探源—</font><font size="3"><font color="#000000">九?</font><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 新細明體;"><font color="#000000">「捐窿捐罅」Refer to</font><font color="#6666ff">
                                                <a href="http://hk.geocities.com/venusmama9161/literarywings_frankie/literarywings_fascinliteration_cul9.htm">http://hk.geocities.com/venusmama9161/literarywings_frankie/literarywings_fascinliteration_cul9.htm</a></font></span></font></font></p>

dada 發表於 2006-12-8 05:45:35

<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none;"><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-hansi-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">麻煩在今日粵語讀</span><font face="Times New Roman">gyun1</font><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-hansi-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">﹐粵語字典又唔承認「鑽」有</span><font face="Times New Roman">gyun1</font><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-hansi-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">音。</span><p></p></p>

殺人王 發表於 2006-12-8 22:13:20

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>dada</i>在2006-12-7 21:45:35的發言:</b><br/><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none;"><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-hansi-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;;">麻煩在今日粵語讀</span><font face="Times New Roman">gyun1</font><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-hansi-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;;">﹐粵語字典又唔承認「鑽」有</span><font face="Times New Roman">gyun1</font><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-hansi-font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;;">音。</span></p><p></p><p></p></div><p>所以我個人偏向"瓹"字多</p>

Wai 發表於 2006-12-9 00:18:22

<p>轉載自香港雅虎知識:</p><p>“鑽才有穿行、穿進的意思。如:鑽山洞、鑽煙囪。宋˙蘇軾˙戲贈虔州慈雲寺鑑老詩: 「窗間但見蠅鑽紙,門外惟聞佛放光。」<br/><br/>但「瓹」一字,根據《玉篇》:「瓹,瓮底下取酒也。」故「瓹」一字並無穿行、穿進的意思。<br/><br/>所以「鑽」才是正字。 ”</p><p>“「瓹」一字與「捐」同音,故地鐵廣告設計的人可能誤以為是此字。<br/><br/>據《廣韻》,「瓹」又可解作「盆底孔。」<br/>《集韻》:「盎下竅。」又:「陶器。」<br/><br/>故無論根據哪個解釋,「瓹」都無「穿」的意思。”</p><p>Refer to <a href="http://hk.knowledge.yahoo.com/question/?qid=7006120104865">http://hk.knowledge.yahoo.com/question/?qid=7006120104865</a></p><p></p><p>搵資料嗰時搵到粵協有個 “廣州話詞典”,睇個link應該係ANL個粵語學堂(unfinished),不過淨係得個索引,入唔到裏面啲內容。</p><p>Refer to <a href="http://cantonese.asia/anl/oncc/data/pccd-unfinished/h.htm">http://cantonese.asia/anl/oncc/data/pccd-unfinished/h.htm</a></p>
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