余OK 發表於 2006-10-18 08:24:43

粵協Q群精彩討論之:「汞」字結構之疑惑

<p>2006-10-17 22:38:14 ΛNL 李<br/>大家覺唔覺得一個奇怪現象,我哋嘅“水銀”係金屬,凡“金屬類”嘅物質文字上都以金字邊做偏旁,但“汞”卻用水字部。是否應作“銾”更合理?</p><p>2006-10-17 22:40:17 /ty源味-﹏-<br/>水银属金属类? </p><p>2006-10-17 22:40:27 Lucciora<br/>嗯 </p><p>2006-10-17 22:40:32 ΛNL 李<br/>水銀當然係金屬</p><p>2006-10-17 22:40:52 Lucciora<br/>水銀係金屬,不過係液態?</p><p>2006-10-17 22:41:09 /ty源味-﹏-<br/>不过佢係液态嗰噃 </p><p>2006-10-17 22:41:47 /ty源味-﹏-<br/>是否从表面特征定断呢?</p><p>2006-10-17 22:44:39 Desmond<br/>古人對科學一知半解,見水銀係水狀嘅,寫汞也不為過 </p><p>2006-10-17 22:45:49 /ty源味-﹏-<br/>秦始皇墓地下好似有水银嘅噃 </p><p>2006-10-17 22:46:26 ΛNL 李<br/>我見《廣州音字典》《廣州話正音字典》有“銾”字。位於“汞”字之後用括號括住。 </p><p>2006-10-17 22:46:59 /ty源味-﹏-<br/>呢个字或者分新旧版本 </p><p>2006-10-17 22:47:21 Desmond<br/>唔少字都反映咗古人對科學未能透徹理解 </p><p>2006-10-17 22:47:39 Desmond<br/>蛇也不是蟲吧 </p><p>2006-10-17 22:48:24 /ty源味-﹏-<br/>似虫状啩 </p><p>2006-10-17 22:48:58 Desmond<br/>蟹、蝦字等 </p><p>2006-10-17 22:49:32 /ty源味-﹏-<br/>形音字 </p><p>2006-10-17 22:49:59 Desmond<br/>所以我認為唔需要特別將汞寫成銾去表達佢係金屬 </p><p>2006-10-17 22:52:20 Lucciora<br/>或者係簡化咗 </p><p>2006-10-17 22:52:39 Lucciora<br/>查香港嘅周期元素表 </p><p>2006-10-17 22:53:07 /ty源味-﹏-<br/>溴是否金属? </p><p>2006-10-17 22:53:19 Lucciora<br/>非金屬 </p><p>2006-10-17 22:53:21 Lucciora<br/>BR </p><p>2006-10-17 22:53:44 Lucciora<br/>Br </p><p>2006-10-17 22:55:22 /ty源味-﹏-<br/>H确系汞噃 </p><p>2006-10-17 22:55:29 /ty源味-﹏-<br/>Hg确系汞噃 </p><p>2006-10-17 23:16:49 Ultra(MyIC.cn)<br/>以古代嘅自然科學認識,完全有理由認爲水銀唔係金屬。 </p><p>2006-10-17 23:18:33 Desmond<br/>ultra有冇論據 </p><p>2006-10-17 23:28:01 Desmond<br/>[;P] </p><p>2006-10-17 23:40:54 Lucciora<br/>應該唔會卦,因爲古代醫書有寫,至硝酸入耳,用銀針探之,可取水銀,呢種係輕金屬置換重金屬嘅反應,應該可以話水銀九係金屬 </p><p>2006-10-17 23:41:44 Desmond<br/>但當時係咪已一早用咗汞字? </p><p>2006-10-17 23:41:58 Desmond<br/>習非成是 </p><p>2006-10-17 23:42:17 Lucciora<br/>水銀 </p><p>2006-10-17 23:42:51 Desmond<br/>噉汞字係後起字? </p><p>2006-10-17 23:43:09 Lucciora<br/>頭先嗰個係醫重金屬中毒 </p><p>2006-10-17 23:43:12 Desmond<br/>古時不嘍只寫水銀? </p><p>2006-10-17 23:43:17 Lucciora<br/>估計係卦 </p><p>2006-10-17 23:47:18 Desmond<br/>[:)] </p><p>2006-10-17 23:53:34 ΛNL 李<br/>《康熙字典》丹沙所化爲水銀也。<br/>丹沙係水銀嘅固態? </p><p>2006-10-17 23:55:17 Ultra(MyIC.cn)<br/>銀針根本不能試毒,呃人嘅! </p><p>2006-10-17 23:55:43 Lucciora<br/>當時講係銀針,不過可能係鐵針 </p><p>2006-10-17 23:57:39 Lucciora<br/>鐵針驗毒,因爲古時嘅毒大多數係强氧化劑 </p><p>2006-10-17 23:58:10 Lucciora<br/>水銀常溫下冇固態 </p><p>2006-10-18 00:01:08 Lucciora<br/>至于丹沙,係造守宮沙嘅材料</p>

dada 發表於 2006-10-19 00:00:13

<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none;"><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">漢朝時候﹐水銀叫做「澒」。</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt;"><p></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none;"><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">西漢《淮南子</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU;">.</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">墜形訓》有一大篇理論﹕</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt;"><p></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none;"><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">正土之氣也,禦乎埃天,埃天五百歲生缺,缺五百歲生黃埃,黃埃五百歲生黃澒,黃澒五百歲生黃金,黃金千歲生黃龍,黃龍入藏生黃泉,黃泉之埃上為黃雲,陰陽相搏為雷,激揚為電,上者就下,流水就通,而合于黃海。</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt;"><p></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none;"><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">偏土之氣,禦乎清天,清天八百歲生青曾,青曾八百歲生青澒,青澒八百歲生青金,青金八百歲生青龍,青龍入藏生青泉,青泉之埃上為青雲,陰陽相薄為雷,激揚為電,上者就下,流水就通,而合于青海。</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt;"><p></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none;"><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">壯士之氣,禦於赤天,赤天七百歲生赤丹,赤丹七百歲生赤澒,赤澒七百歲生赤金,赤金千歲生赤龍,赤龍入藏生赤泉,赤泉之埃上為赤雲,陰陽相薄為雷,激揚為電,上者就下,流水就通,而合於赤海。</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt;"><p></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none;"><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">弱土之氣,禦于白天,白天九百歲生白礜,白礜九百歲生白澒,白澒九百歲生白金,白金千歲生白龍,白龍入藏生白泉,白泉之埃上為白雲,陰陽相薄為雷,激揚為電,上者就下,流水就通,而合于白海。</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt;"><p></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none;"><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">牝土之氣,禦于玄天,玄天六百歲生玄砥,玄砥六百歲生玄澒,玄澒六百歲生玄金,玄金千歲生玄龍,玄龍入藏生玄泉,玄泉之埃上為玄雲,陰陽相薄為雷,激揚為電,上者就下,流水就通,而合于玄海。</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt;"><font face="Times New Roman">
                                <p></p></font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none;"><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">東漢《說文》有「水銀」呢個名詞﹕「澒﹐丹沙所化﹐為水銀也。從水項聲。」</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt;"><p></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none;"><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">《正字通.水部》:「汞,俗澒字。道家改作汞。」</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt;"><p></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">冇</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU; mso-ansi-language: EN-US;">咗</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">個「頁」﹐連個音都變</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU; mso-ansi-language: EN-US;">咗</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">。</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU; mso-fareast-font-family: MingLiU;"><p></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none;"><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">古時煉丹術其實係化學</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU; mso-ansi-language: EN-US;">嘅</span><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">前身。東漢魏伯陽已經描述過化學反應式﹕「河上奼女,靈而最神,得火則飛,不見埃塵。鬼隱神匿,莫知所存。將欲制之,黃芽為根。」</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU; mso-fareast-font-family: MingLiU;"><p></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none;"><span lang="ZH-TW" style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: MingLiU; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU;">「河上奼女」係水銀,黃芽係硫黃,水銀加硫黃就變成硫化汞,即係所謂丹砂。</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-bidi-font-family: MingLiU; mso-fareast-font-family: MingLiU;"><p></p></span></p>

Anl 發表於 2006-10-19 03:04:06

<p>等我嚟解釋“澒”字。<br/>《唐韻》呼孔切。《集韻》《韻會》虎孔切。《正韻》胡孔切。並音汞。《說文》:丹砂所化爲水銀也。 又濛澒,元氣未分貌。王充《論衡》:溟涬濛澒。 又澒溶,水深廣貌。左思《吳都賦》:澒溶沆瀁。 又澒洞,相連貌。杜甫詩:澒洞不可掇。 又《集韻》戶講切。音項。義同。又胡貢切。音哄。亦水銀也。</p><p>總嘅講,“汞”係h聲母,此字當今連中小學老師都唔識讀。自細老人家就稱紅藥水(化學名:汞溴紅)做“紅汞水”。喺老人家一輩口中一律讀“控”,再翻查《廣州話正音字典》,確實讀“控”。何解我哋中小學老師大多數都教學生讀“貢”?大概係因爲現時普及普通話嘅同時忽略咗對方言嘅保護。</p>
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