越南字母拼寫粵語拼音

desmond 發表於 2008-7-18 22:34:42

本帖最後由 desmond 於 2010-8-11 15:24 編輯

xiss 發表於 2008-7-18 23:30:14

唐話羅馬字？點解冇韻母表嘅？

penkyamp 發表於 2008-7-19 00:54:30

我肯定这不是 DESMOND 君以前创作的"唐话罗马字". 唐话罗马字是一个耶鲁系方案. 也就是说元音系统的理解, 与耶鲁, 教院, 粤拼基本相同. 但本方案的韵母系是和 PENKYAMP 一致的. 使用越南式上标号来表达短元音和前元音的灵感, 直接来自FELIX WAN的"越南式广东话拼音". 唯一不同的是, 该方案没有象 FELIX WAN 一样用一个字母来表示 NG 另外, 周口店河母度六调, 该方案是采取越南语中的汉字调号大约摸地对应这六个汉语调的. 当然, 我们知道, 越南语调和汉语调的对应不是完美的. 我这里有 FELIX WAN 方案: http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/Cantonese_written_in_Vietnamese_script 

<table style="text-align: center;" border="1" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr>
<td>Tone number</td><td>Contour</td><td>Diacritics</td><td>Comment
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td>1</td><td>55 / 53</td><td>ã
</td><td>The contour of the Vietnamese counterpart is totally off, but this diacritic is closest to the most desirable macron: ā
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td>2</td><td>35</td><td>á
</td><td>Same contour as the Vietnamese counterpart as well as Hanyu Pinyin.
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td>3</td><td>33</td><td>a
</td><td>Same contour as the Vietnamese counterpart. Also the most heavily used particle ge can be written without tone marks.
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td>4</td><td>21 / 11</td><td>à
</td><td>Similar contour as the Vietnamese counterpart: low falling.
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td>5</td><td>13</td><td>ả
</td><td>Question mark implies rising, resembles rising part of the Vietnamese counterpart.
</td></tr>
<tr>
<td>6</td><td>22</td><td>ạ
</td><td>Looks like a lower pitch version of the one without tone mark.
</td></tr></tbody></table> 可见, 本方案采取的调号, 与 FELIX WAN 是完全一致的. 应该就是 FELIX WAN 方案除却 ŋ FELIX WAN 方案或本方案有一个很大的用途: 在英语字典中准确地注广东话字音. 应该说, FELIX WAN 或本方案, 是广东话的"伟氏音标". 当然了, PENKYAMP 也有它的优点, 因为越南标调号毕竟比PENKYAMP标调号稍微生僻一点, 何况它们是要加在元音变形号上面的. 广东话里能分出 G-K, NG-NK, M-MP, 是天赐的简化机制, PENKYMAP 利用了. 当然, 直观上, FELIX WAN及本方案比PENKYAMP 更容易理解, 因此适用于字典中, 因为字典音标, 忌长篇大论介绍方案规则, 宜"一估就明". 

[ 本帖最後由 penkyamp 於 2008-7-19 00:57 編輯 ]

xiss 發表於 2008-7-19 00:59:32

麽原來重有FELIX WAN 方案咖？咩嘢叫做FELIX WAN ，能否詳細解釋下啊？

penkyamp 發表於 2008-7-19 01:04:20

FELIX WAN 系一个致力广东话现代化嘅同仁. 呢套"越南式方案"大概创制三年左右. 当时我同 FELIX 讨论过点解广东话 A, O, E 三个长元音都有其短对应嘅道理, FELIX 觉得我讲嘅有一定道理. 佢即刻做咗呢套"越南式", 话PENKYAMP嘅一大难点系规则介绍要嗮啲时间, 字母组合比较多. "越南式"用一个字母表达一个音位, 包括 ŋ 呢个字母, 而且一估就明. 而且无 EA 咁嘅"特殊情况另一组合形式". 我觉得好适合字典. 当然, 如果连声调都用越南符号, 嗰个当然系当时兴趣使然. 其实用简单啲嘅, 或者同PENKYAMP统一啲嘅符号, 都未尝不可. 另外, FELIX 方案的"掉"(白读 DEU, 第六声)不需要制作出特殊字母组合, 但是PENKYAMP 必须制作出 EA 这个特殊字母组合来拼写 DEAU , 以免出现与 "遇" (YEU) 的韵母混淆的情况, 这也是FELIX的越南式方案更适合作为"伟氏音标"的原因. 当然, FELIX 和 PENKYAMP 都是严格地反映粤语语音规律的, 可以通过规律来无限地创造表达方式. 我可以说 PENKYAMP 是 FELIX 的一种"观感简化形式". FELIX 是 PENKYAMP 的一种"规则简化形式". 

[ 本帖最後由 penkyamp 於 2008-7-19 01:11 編輯 ]

penkyamp 發表於 2008-7-19 01:17:12

由楼主 DESMOND 发明

下边呢个先系唐话罗马字, 可见佢系个耶鲁系嘅方案: http://input.foruto.com/ocj/yuetyuelomaji/ <table style="border-collapse: collapse;" id="AutoNumber1" bordercolorlight="#FFFFFF" bordercolordark="#FFFFFF" width="100%" border="1" bordercolor="#111111" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td width="10%" align="center">Letter</td>
<td width="25%"> English Sound</td>
<td width="65%"> Example</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">b</td>
<td width="25%"> s-p-ear</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/baa1.wav">bā</a> 爸 (father),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/beng2.wav">bêng</a>
餅 (biscuit)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">p</td>
<td width="25%"> p-ot (aspirated)</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/paau2.wav">pâau</a>
跑 (to run), 
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/pang4.wav">
pàng</a>yáu 朋友 (friends)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">d</td>
<td width="25%"> s-t-ar</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/daa2.wav">dâ</a>
打 (to hit),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/daai6.wav">
daai</a> 大 (big)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">t</td>
<td width="25%"> t-ick (aspirated)</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/tai2.wav">tâi</a>
睇 (to see),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/teng1.wav">
tēng</a> 聽 (to listen)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">j</td>
<td width="25%"> ca-ts</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/zou6.wav">jou</a>
做 (to do), 
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/zi1.wav">
jī</a> 知 (to know)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">c</td>
<td width="25%"> ca-ts (aspirated)</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/cat1.wav">cāt</a>
七 (seven),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/ce1.wav">
cē</a> 車 (car)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">g</td>
<td width="25%"> s-k-y</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/gau2.wav">gâu</a>
九 (nine),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/gong2.wav">
gông</a> 講 (to speak)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">k</td>
<td width="25%"> k-ing (aspirated)</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/keoi5.wav">kéoi</a>
佢 (he/she),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/kei5.wav">
kéi</a> 跂 (to stand)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">gw</td>
<td width="25%"> s-qu-id</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/gwai3.wav">gwäi</a>
貴 (expensive),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/gwaa1.wav">gwā</a>
瓜 (melon)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">kw</td>
<td width="25%"> qu-een (aspirated)</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/kwan4.wav">kwàn</a>
裙 (dress/skirt),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/kwaang1.wav">kwāang</a>
框 (frame)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">l</td>
<td width="25%"> l-ight</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/luk6.wav">luk</a>
六 (six),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/lik6.wav">lik</a>
力 (force/energy)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">m</td>
<td width="25%"> m-an</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/maai5.wav">máai</a>
買 (to buy),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/man6.wav">man</a>
問 (to ask)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">n</td>
<td width="25%"> n-ear</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/naam4.wav">nàam</a>
男 (male),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/neoi5.wav">néoi</a>
女 (female)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">ng</td>
<td width="25%"> thi-ng</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/ngaan5.wav">ngáan</a>
眼 (eye),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/ngaa4.wav">ngà</a>
牙 (tooth)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">f</td>
<td width="25%"> f-un</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/faan6.wav">faan</a>
飯 (cooked rice),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/fei4.wav">fèi</a>
肥 (fat)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">s</td>
<td width="25%"> s-it</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/saam1.wav">sāam</a>
三 (three),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/sei3.wav">sëi</a>
四 (four)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">h</td>
<td width="25%"> h-ello</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/hau2.wav">hâu</a>
口 (mouth),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/hou2.wav">hôu</a>
好 (good)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">y</td>
<td width="25%"> y-es</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/jat1.wav">yāt</a>
一 (one), 
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/jiu3.wav">yïu</a>
要 (to demand/need/want)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">w</td>
<td width="25%"> w-ater</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/wu1.wav">wū</a>jōu
污糟 (dirty),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/waa6.wav">wa</a>
話 (to say)</td></tr></tbody></table> <h4>2.2.1 Nucleus aa - a (aa), aai, aau; aam, aan, aang; aap, aat, aak</h4>

<table style="border-collapse: collapse;" id="AutoNumber1" bordercolorlight="#FFFFFF" bordercolordark="#FFFFFF" width="100%" border="1" bordercolor="#111111" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">Letter</td>
<td width="25%"> English Sound</td>
<td width="65%"> Example</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">a</td>
<td width="25%"> f-a-ther</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/baa1.wav">bā</a> 爸 (father),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/waa6.wav">wa</a>
話 (to say)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">aai</td>
<td width="25%"> l-ie</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/daai6.wav">daai</a> 大 (big), <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/maai5.wav">máai</a>
買 (to buy)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">aau</td>
<td width="25%"> l-ou-d</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/paau2.wav">pâau</a>
跑 (to run),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/baau1.wav">bāau</a>
包 (to wrap/bun)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="3" width="100%" align="center"> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">aam</td>
<td width="25%"> f-arm</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/naam4.wav">nàam</a>
男 (male), <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/saam1.wav">sāam</a>
三 (three)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">aan</td>
<td width="25%"> aun-t</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/ngaan5.wav">ngáan</a>
眼 (eye), <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/faan6.wav">faan</a>
飯 (cooked rice)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">aang</td>
<td width="25%"> arn + ng</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/haang4.wav">hàang</a>
行 (to walk),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/ngaang6.wav">ngaang</a>
硬 (stiff)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="3" width="100%" align="center"> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">aap</td>
<td width="25%"> c-arp</td>
<td width="65%"> kek<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/zaap6.wav">jaap</a>
劇集 (drama serials)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">aat</td>
<td width="25%"> art</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/laat6.wav">laat</a>
辣 (spicy hot),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/waat6.wav">waat</a>
(slippery)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">aak</td>
<td width="25%"> ark</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/baak6.wav">baak</a>
白 (white),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/ngaak6.wav">ngaak</a>
額 (forehead)</td></tr></tbody></table> <h4>2.2.2 Nucleus a - ai, au; am, an, ang; ap, at, ak</h4>
<table style="border-collapse: collapse;" id="AutoNumber1" bordercolorlight="#FFFFFF" bordercolordark="#FFFFFF" width="100%" border="1" bordercolor="#111111" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody><tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">Letter</td>
<td width="25%"> English Sound</td>
<td width="65%"> Example</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">ai</td>
<td width="25%"> s-i-te</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/tai2.wav">tâi</a>
睇 (to see),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/sai2.wav">sâi</a>
洗 (to wash)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">au</td>
<td width="25%"> ou-t</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/hau2.wav">hâu</a>
口 (mouth),  <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/sau2.wav">sâu</a>
手 (hand)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="3" width="100%" align="center"> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">am</td>
<td width="25%"> s-um</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/jam2.wav">yâm</a>
飲 (to drink),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/sam1.wav">sām</a>
心 (heart)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">an</td>
<td width="25%"> s-un</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/san1.wav">sān</a>
新 (new),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/man6.wav">man</a>
問 (to ask)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">ang</td>
<td width="25%"> s-ung</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/dang2.wav">dâng</a>
等 (to wait),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/pang4.wav">
pàng</a>yáu 朋友 (friends)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="3" width="100%" align="center"> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">ap</td>
<td width="25%"> c-up</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/sap6.wav">sap</a>
十 (ten),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/jap6.wav">yap</a>
入 (to enter)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">at</td>
<td width="25%"> c-ut</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/jat1.wav">yāt</a>
一 (one), <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/cat1.wav">cāt</a>
七 (seven)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">ak</td>
<td width="25%"> s-uck</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/hak1.wav">hāk</a>
黑 (black),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/bak1.wav">bāk</a>
北 (north)</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<h4>2.2.3 Nucleus e - e, ei, eu; em,eng; ep, ek</h4>
<table style="border-collapse: collapse;" id="AutoNumber1" bordercolorlight="#FFFFFF" bordercolordark="#FFFFFF" width="100%" border="1" bordercolor="#111111" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody><tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">Letter</td>
<td width="25%"> English Sound</td>
<td width="65%"> Example</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">e</td>
<td width="25%"> l-e-t</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/ce1.wav">cē</a> 車 (car),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/se2.wav">sê</a>
寫 (to write)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">ei</td>
<td width="25%"> s-ay</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/fei4.wav">fèi</a>
肥 (fat),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/bei2.wav">bêi</a>
畀 (to give)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">eu</td>
<td width="25%"> c-al-culate</td>
<td width="65%"> <a target="_blank" href="http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-can/sound/deu6.wav">deu</a> 掉 (to drop), jeu (to
chew)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="3" width="100%" align="center"> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">em</td>
<td width="25%"> s-am</td>
<td width="65%"> <a target="_blank" href="http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-can/sound/lem2.wav">lêm</a> 舐 (to lick)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">eng</td>
<td width="25%"> s-ang</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/beng2.wav">bêng</a>
餅 (biscuit),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/teng1.wav">
tēng</a> 聽 (to listen)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="3" width="100%" align="center"> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">ep</td>
<td width="25%"> m-ap</td>
<td width="65%"> <a target="_blank" href="http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-can/sound/gep6.wav">gep</a> 夾 (to nip/to clamp)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">ek</td>
<td width="25%"> s-ec</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/sek6.wav">sek</a>tàu
石頭 (stone), <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/kek6.wav">kek</a>jaap
劇集 (drama serials)</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<h4>2.2.4 Nucleus eo - eo, eoi; eon, eong; eot, eok</h4>
<table style="border-collapse: collapse;" id="AutoNumber3" bordercolorlight="#FFFFFF" bordercolordark="#FFFFFF" width="100%" border="1" bordercolor="#111111" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody><tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">Letter</td>
<td width="25%"> English Sound</td>
<td width="65%"> Example</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">eo</td>
<td width="25%"> f-ur</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/hoe1.wav">hēo</a> 
靴 (boot)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">eoi</td>
<td width="25%"> oy + ee</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/keoi5.wav">kéoi</a>
佢 (he/she),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/seoi2.wav">sêoi</a>
水 (water)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="3" width="100%" align="center"> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">eon</td>
<td width="25%"> very short oo + n</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/ceon2.wav">cêon</a>
蠢 (stupid/foolish),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/seon4.wav">sèon</a>
唇 (lips)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">eong</td>
<td width="25%"> urn + ng</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/soeng2.wav">sêong</a>
想 (want to/wanna),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/loeng5.wav">léong</a>
兩 (two)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="3" width="100%" align="center"> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">eot</td>
<td width="25%"> short p-ut</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/ceot1.wav">cēot</a>
出 (go out/come out),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/seot1.wav">sēot</a>sāam
恤衫 (shirt)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">eok</td>
<td width="25%"> j-erk</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/joek6.wav">yeok</a>
藥 (drug/medicine), jêok (bird)</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<h4>2.2.5 Nucleus i - i, iu; im, in, ing; ip, it, ik</h4>
<table style="border-collapse: collapse;" id="AutoNumber1" bordercolorlight="#FFFFFF" bordercolordark="#FFFFFF" width="100%" border="1" bordercolor="#111111" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody><tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">Letter</td>
<td width="25%"> English Sound</td>
<td width="65%"> Example</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">i</td>
<td width="25%"> s-ee</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/zi1.wav">jī</a> 知 (to know),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/ji6.wav">yi</a>
易 (easy)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">iu</td>
<td width="25%"> ee + ew</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/siu2.wav">sîu</a>
少 (few),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/ziu1.wav">jīu</a>tàujôu
朝頭早 (morning)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="3" width="100%" align="center"> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">im</td>
<td width="25%"> s-im</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/dim2.wav">dîm</a>
點 (o'clock),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/tim4.wav">tìm</a>
甜 (sweet)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">in</td>
<td width="25%"> s-in</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/min6.wav">min</a>
面 (face),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/tin1.wav">tīn</a>
天 (sky/heaven)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">ing</td>
<td width="25%"> s-ing</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/ming4.wav">mìng</a>
明 (to understand),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/zing6.wav">jing</a>
靜 (quiet)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="3" width="100%" align="center"> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">ip</td>
<td width="25%"> s-ip</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/jip6.wav">yip</a>
葉 (leaf), dîp
碟 (plate)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">it</td>
<td width="25%"> s-it</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/jit6.wav">yit</a>
熱 (hot)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">ik</td>
<td width="25%"> s-ick</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/sik6.wav">sik</a>
食 (to eat),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/lik6.wav">lik</a>
力 (force/energy)</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<h4>2.2.6 Nucleus o - o, oi, ou; on, ong; ot, ok</h4>
<table style="border-collapse: collapse;" id="AutoNumber1" bordercolorlight="#FFFFFF" bordercolordark="#FFFFFF" width="100%" border="1" bordercolor="#111111" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody><tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">Letter</td>
<td width="25%"> English Sound</td>
<td width="65%"> Example</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">o</td>
<td width="25%"> f-ou-r</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/co5.wav">có</a>
坐 (to sit),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/do1.wav">dō</a>
多 (many/much)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">oi</td>
<td width="25%"> s-oy</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/hoi1.wav">hōi</a> 開 (to open),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/ngoi6.wav">ngoi</a>min
外面 (outside)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">ou</td>
<td width="25%"> s-o</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/zou6.wav">jou</a>
做 (to do),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/hou2.wav">hôu</a>
好 (good)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="3" width="100%" align="center"> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">on</td>
<td width="25%"> on</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/gon1.wav">gōn</a>
乾 (dry),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/hon6.wav">hon</a>
汗 (sweat)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">ong</td>
<td width="25%"> s-ong</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/gong2.wav">gông</a> 講 (to speak),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/fong2.wav">fông</a>
房 (room)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="3" width="100%" align="center"> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">ot</td>
<td width="25%"> h-ot</td>
<td width="65%"> hâu<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/hot3.wav">höt</a>
口渴 (thirsty),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/got3.wav">göt</a>
割 (to cut/to shear)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">ok</td>
<td width="25%"> s-ock</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/hok6.wav">hok</a>
學 (to learn),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/lok6.wav">lok</a>
落 (go down)</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<h4>2.2.7 Nucleus u - u, ui; un, ung; ut, uk</h4>
<table style="border-collapse: collapse;" id="AutoNumber1" bordercolorlight="#FFFFFF" bordercolordark="#FFFFFF" width="100%" border="1" bordercolor="#111111" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody><tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">Letter</td>
<td width="25%"> English Sound</td>
<td width="65%"> Example</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">u</td>
<td width="25%"> t-oo</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/wu1.wav">wū</a>jōu
污糟 (dirty),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/fu2.wav">fû</a>
苦 (bitter)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">ui</td>
<td width="25%"> oo + ee</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/bui1.wav">būi</a>
杯 (cup/glass),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/mui5.wav">múi</a>
每 (every)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="3" width="100%" align="center"> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">un</td>
<td width="25%"> m-oon</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/mun4.wav">mùn</a>
門 (door),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/wun2.wav">wûn</a>
碗 (bowl)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">ung</td>
<td width="25%"> l-one + ng</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/jung6.wav">yung</a>
用 (to use),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/tung4.wav">tùng</a>
同 (and)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="3" width="100%" align="center"> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">ut</td>
<td width="25%"> f-oot</td>
<td width="65%"> sāng<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/wut6.wav">wut</a>
生活 (life)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">uk</td>
<td width="25%"> c-ook</td>
<td width="65%">
 <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/luk6.wav">luk</a>
六 (six), <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/juk6.wav">yuk</a>
肉 (meat)</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<h4>2.2.8 Nucleus ue - ue; uen; uet</h4>
<table style="border-collapse: collapse;" id="AutoNumber1" bordercolorlight="#FFFFFF" bordercolordark="#FFFFFF" width="100%" border="1" bordercolor="#111111" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody><tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">Letter</td>
<td width="25%"> English Sound</td>
<td width="65%"> Example</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">ue</td>
<td width="25%"> rounded u</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/syu1.wav">sūe</a>
書 (book),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/zyu1.wav">jūe</a>
豬 (pig)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="3" width="100%" align="center"> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">uen</td>
<td width="25%"> rounded u + n</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/dyun2.wav">dûen</a>
短 (short), 
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/jyun5.wav">yúen</a>
遠 (far)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="3" width="100%" align="center"> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">uet</td>
<td width="25%"> rounded u + d</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/jyut6.wav">yuet</a>
月 (month)</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<h4>2.2.9 Syllabic Nasals - m, ng</h4>

<table style="border-collapse: collapse;" id="AutoNumber1" bordercolorlight="#FFFFFF" bordercolordark="#FFFFFF" width="100%" border="1" bordercolor="#111111" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">Letter</td>
<td width="25%"> English Sound</td>
<td width="65%"> Example</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">m</td>
<td width="25%"> mmm...</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/m4.wav">m`</a>gōi
唔該 (thank you)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">ng</td>
<td width="25%"> su-ng</td>
<td width="65%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/ng5.wav">ng´</a>
五 (five)</td></tr></tbody></table> <h3>3. Cantonese Tones</h3>
Tones are related to music. When you say 「do re mi fa so la ti do」, the tone
rises each word up. In Chinese languages like Cantonese, tones are important in
conveying meaning.
<a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_%28linguistics%29">Mandarin</a> has 4 tones,
<a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghainese">Shanghainese</a> has 5 and Teochew 6.
Cantonese has 6 tones. If you think that is a lot, it is really not. It is
actually easy for intuitive Cantonese speakers. 
 
It many help to envision these tones drawn out in a diagram. The white
horizontal lines show pitch levels, while the blue lines show tones.
<img src="http://input.foruto.com/ocj/yuetyuelomaji/tonediagram.gif" width="431" border="0" height="136">
In representing the tones, the accent mark of each tone is placed above the very
first vowel letter in a word, e.g.
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/seoi2.wav">sêoi</a>
水 (water), <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/haang4.wav">hàang</a>
行 (to walk), <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/gwai3.wav">gwäi</a>
貴 (expensive),
<a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/goek3.wav">gëok</a>
腳 (foot). Pronounce a word listed next to each tone and then
look at the corresponding tone diagram.
<table style="border-collapse: collapse;" id="AutoNumber1" bordercolorlight="#FFFFFF" bordercolordark="#FFFFFF" width="100%" border="1" bordercolor="#111111" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody><tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">Tone</td>
<td width="10%" align="center">Mark</td>
<td width="16%" align="center">Contour</td>
<td width="24%"> Pitch Level</td>
<td width="20%"> Fu</td>
<td width="20%"> Si</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">1</td>
<td width="10%" align="center">ā</td>
<td width="16%" align="center">Level</td>
<td width="24%"> High (5-5)</td>
<td width="20%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/fu1.wav">fū</a>
夫 (husband)</td>
<td width="20%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/si1.wav">sī</a>
詩 (poem)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">2</td>
<td width="10%" align="center">â</td>
<td width="16%" align="center">Rising</td>
<td width="24%"> Mid to High (3-5)</td>
<td width="20%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/fu2.wav">fû</a>
苦 (bitter)</td>
<td width="20%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/si2.wav">sî</a>
史 (history)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">3</td>
<td width="10%" align="center">ä</td>
<td width="16%" align="center">Level</td>
<td width="24%"> Mid (3-3)</td>
<td width="20%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/fu3.wav">fü</a>
富 (rich)</td>
<td width="20%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/si3.wav">sï</a>
試 (to try)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">4</td>
<td width="10%" align="center">à</td>
<td width="16%" align="center">Falling</td>
<td width="24%"> Low-Mid to Low (2-1)</td>
<td width="20%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/fu4.wav">fù</a>
扶 (to lean)</td>
<td width="20%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/si4.wav">sì</a>
時 (time)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">5</td>
<td width="10%" align="center">á</td>
<td width="16%" align="center">Rising</td>
<td width="24%"> Low to Mid (1-3)</td>
<td width="20%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/fu5.wav">fú</a>
婦 (woman)</td>
<td width="20%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/si5.wav">sí</a>
市 (city)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="10%" align="center">6</td>
<td width="10%" align="center">a</td>
<td width="16%" align="center">Level</td>
<td width="24%"> Low-Mid (2-2)</td>
<td width="20%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/fu6.wav">fu</a>
父 (father)</td>
<td width="20%"> <a href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/sound/si6.wav">si</a>
事 (event)</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
Here are two examples to give you a clear idea of the differences between
the 6 tones:
<a href="http://input.foruto.com/ocj/yuetyuelomaji/audio/fu123456.wav">fū,
fû, fü, fù, fú, fu</a> 夫 (husband),
苦 (bitter), 富 
(rich),
扶 (to lean), 婦 (woman),
父 (father) 
<a href="http://input.foruto.com/ocj/yuetyuelomaji/audio/si123456.wav">sī,
sî, sï, sì, sí, si</a> 詩 
(poem),
史 (history), 試 
(to try),
時 (time), 市 
(city),
事 (event)
<h4>3.1 Tone Mark Mnemonics</h4>
The following mnemonics should help create visual associations between the
tones and accent marks.
<img src="http://input.foruto.com/ocj/yuetyuelomaji/tonemnemonics.gif" width="310" border="0" height="50"> <h3>5. References</h3>
<ul><li><a target="_blank" href="http://www.gaginang.org/">GagiNang.org</a> by
the Teochiu Organization</li><li><a target="_blank" href="http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Canton/">A
Chinese-Cantonese Syllabary</a></li><li>
<a target="_blank" href="http://www.geocities.com/eugene_esther/default.htm">
Cantonese in Singapore</a> by Eugene Chua, Eugene Koh, Esther Leng and Audrey
Tan</li><li><a target="_blank" href="http://www.cantonese.ca/">Learn Cantonese</a> by
Christian Kisa</li></ul>

xiss 發表於 2008-7-19 15:01:43

原帖由 penkyamp 於 2008-7-19 01:04 發表 <A href="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=94242&ptid=11249" target=_blank><IMG onclick=zoom(this) alt="" src="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/images/common/back.gif" onload="attachimg(this, 'load')" border=0></A> 我觉得好适合字典. 当然, 如果连声调都用越南符号, 嗰个当然系当时兴趣使然. 其实用简单啲嘅, 或者同PENKYAMP统一啲嘅符号, 都未尝不可.   
如果短元音上面加個「倒三角」符號，而標調的時候又在上方加上一個符號，豈不是「號上加號」噉樣似乎重難於電腦輸入喔，除非我哋搵到呢種「號上加號」的字符，唔止有冇呢？
 
原帖由 penkyamp 於 2008-7-19 01:04 發表 <A href="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=94242&ptid=11249" target=_blank><IMG onclick=zoom(this) alt="" src="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/images/common/back.gif" onload="attachimg(this, 'load')" border=0></A> 另外, FELIX 方案的"掉"(白读 DEU, 第六声)不需要制作出特殊字母组合, 但是PENKYAMP 必须制作出 EA 这个特殊字母组合来拼写 DEAU , 以免出现与 "遇" (YEU) 的韵母混淆的情况, 这也是FELIX的越南式方案更适合作为"伟氏音标"的原因.  
其實我覺得，既然Penkyampji喺口語「eu」上唔能夠按照類推原則去表示，而要特殊設置，噉樣肯定係Penkyampji嘅符號設置上某個環節有尐唔夠科學，所以先至會令類推失效。我認爲口語「eu」嘅表示應該冇麽問題，問題係喺Penkyampji原來「eu魚之韻」嘅設置上有尐唔科學，唔知啱唔啱呢？
好似FELIX噉樣就冇噉樣嘅問題嘞。

penkyamp 發表於 2008-7-19 19:35:12

号上加号, 是越南文的先例. FELIX WAN 方案完全采用越南符号, 怎么没有现成符号呢? UE系介音U同单元音E嘅组合, 在"炯"GUENK中出现, 不宜表"鱼"韵. 所以"鱼"韵仍 EU, "靴"韵仍 EO 而不是 UE 和 OE PENKYAMP 不能用 GWENK 来表 "炯". W 作为介音太臃肿. 另外 DEAU 的 EA 是通过 EU, EO 的规律类推的, 虽然是特殊设置, 但不是武断的. 如果当初 "GWONGDONKWA PENKYAMP" 采用 W 来作为 "鬼怪" GWAYGWAI, "炯" GWENK 的介音, 而拼"鱼"为 YUE, "粤"为 YUED, "靴"为 HOE, 则 "翘撩"可拼为 KEU LEU, "掉"可拼为 DEU 但是这样会增加许多 "GW", 对美观是大煞风景的. 

[ 本帖最後由 penkyamp 於 2008-7-19 19:41 編輯 ]

desmond 發表於 2008-7-19 20:23:39

penkyamp 講得冇錯，本方案確係靈感得自 Felix Wan 和 penkyamp。Felix Wan 嘅越南式廣東話拼音冇被推廣確實係有啲可惜，可以將佢嘅方案加以改良再推廣。

　Ｍs.R 發表於 2008-7-19 20:56:47

依家先知道cantonese的重要性~~<IMG alt="" src="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/images/smilies/default/sweat.gif" border=0 smilieid="10"> 
好在我係广东人喈~~
如果唔係学到我S下S下都未学识~~
我自豪，，Because i'm Cantonese~~<IMG alt="" src="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/images/smilies/default/lol.gif" border=0 smilieid="12"> <IMG alt="" src="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/images/smilies/default/victory.gif" border=0 smilieid="14">

外外星人 發表於 2008-7-19 21:51:28

原帖由 　Ｍs.R 於 2008-7-19 20:56 發表 <A href="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=94406&ptid=11249" target=_blank><IMG onclick=zoom(this) alt="" src="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/images/common/back.gif" onload="attachimg(this, 'load')" border=0></A> 依家先知道cantonese的重要性~~ 好在我係广东人喈~~ 如果唔係学到我S下S下都未学识~~ 我自豪，，Because i'm Cantonese~~ 
 
就呢句话都应该加十分八分！

xiss 發表於 2008-7-19 23:17:31

原帖由 penkyamp 於 2008-7-19 19:35 發表 <A href="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=94370&ptid=11249" target=_blank><IMG onclick=zoom(this) alt="" src="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/images/common/back.gif" onload="attachimg(this, 'load')" border=0></A> UE系介音U同单元音E嘅组合, 在"炯"GUENK中出现, 不宜表"鱼"韵. 所以"鱼"韵仍 EU, "靴"韵仍 EO 而不是 UE 和 OE 
上面嘅我知道，但係我想問，雖然ue、eo唔合適，但係噉樣亦都並唔代表eu就最合適啊？畢竟呢種設置導致咗eau呢個特例。係唔係可以有一種更合適嘅設置呢？另外，請問Penkyamp知唔知道點解Penkyampji要將「魚」設置成eu呢？係出於么嘢嘅語音考慮呢？呢點我一直都唔係好明！

[ 本帖最後由 xiss 於 2008-7-20 02:39 編輯 ]

xiss 發表於 2008-7-19 23:25:57

原帖由 desmond 於 2008-7-19 20:23 發表 <A href="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=94393&ptid=11249" target=_blank><IMG onclick=zoom(this) alt="" src="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/images/common/back.gif" onload="attachimg(this, 'load')" border=0></A> penkyamp 講得冇錯，本方案確係靈感得自 Felix Wan 和 penkyamp。Felix Wan 嘅越南式廣東話拼音冇被推廣確實係有啲可惜，可以將佢嘅方案加以改良再推廣。 
<DIV class=t_msgfont id=postmessage_94393>哈？原來嗰套越南式廣州話拼音就係呢套啊，總算搵到佢啦！！冇錯啊，我都覺得越南式廣州話拼音冇被推廣開去的確可惜。就好似Penkyampji一樣。反而係Jyutping呢類拼音方案因爲冇得比較而畀睇成咗係主流。</DIV>

xiss 發表於 2008-7-20 00:46:27

Desmond，Penkyamp，你哋覺得我嘅《粵語拉丁文拼寫通用轉寫方案》（<A href="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/viewthread.php?tid=11175&extra=page%3D1"><A href="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/viewthread.php?tid=11175&extra=page%3D1">http://bbs.cantonese.asia/viewthread.php?tid=11175&extra=page%3D1</A></A>）如何？有冇尐大嘅需要改進嘅地方。希望可以喺該帖留低你哋寶貴嘅意見。

penkyamp 發表於 2008-7-20 13:02:34

原帖由 xiss 於 2008-7-19 23:17 發表 <a href="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=94475&ptid=11249" target="_blank"><img src="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/images/common/back.gif" onclick="zoom(this)" onload="attachimg(this, 'load')" alt="" border="0"></a>

上面嘅我知道，但係我想問，雖然ue、eo唔合適，但係噉樣亦都並唔代表eu就最合適啊？畢竟呢種設置導致咗eau呢個特例。係唔係可以有一種更合適嘅設置呢？另外，請問Penkyamp知唔知道點解Penkyampji要將「魚」設置成eu呢？係出於么 ... 完全出于规律类推. 德语"鱼"韵, 在上加两点发明前, 是写成 UE 的, 所以德语"靴"韵相应为 OE. 这里的 "E" 成为前元音表示符, 不是一个实元音. EU 和 EO 是最新韩语拉丁方案里首先被接受的组合, 两者有规律类推关系, 分别是 U 和 O 的非圆唇对应. 没有另一种组合比 EU, EO (还有 EA) 更有规律性. 比如说 YU: 如果鱼韵写 YU, 难道靴韵保持在 EO, 从而破坏规律统一观感吗? 又难道, 用 YO 来写靴韵吗? 要知道, 这制造的特殊例子就更多了. YO 在"用", "玉"里面表的是半元音 Y 和元音 O. 另外, 如果"鱼"韵写 YU, 那么"鱼"字是写成 YYU 还是 YU? 如果写成 YU, 那不是要特殊解释: 声母简化? "粤拼"和耶鲁败就败在鱼韵写 YU. 抛开 ING, UNG 不说. 迫使粤拼采用 J, 迫使耶鲁搞双 YY 或特殊简化声母, 都破坏了语音可估性(规律类推性). 耶鲁系里现在最好的, 还是唐话罗马字.

penkyamp 發表於 2008-7-20 13:21:02

PENKYAMP 里面特例十分少, 只有一个, 是一个十分简单, 容易解释的特例, 而且影响面特别小, 目前我所知只有三个字受影响, 都是很不常用的口语字. 而且当初为歧异拼法如 Z, J 和 E, EA 开路, 也有日后文字化, 以通过歧拼来区别语义的意思. 不过后来PENKYAMP渐渐与语音规律严格性挂起钩来, 文字化就成为了一个无关紧要的话题. 

[ 本帖最後由 penkyamp 於 2008-7-20 13:23 編輯 ]

xiss 發表於 2008-7-20 19:45:07

睇嚟真係好難搵到一種同時滿足：唔用附加符號、符合語音規律設置字母同具有良好拓展性三個要求嘅方案。

desmond 發表於 2008-7-20 21:12:02

Cừnkầu Wàyần gộng gin, jôidại Yựtyử mỏngjạm!

[ 本帖最後由 desmond 於 2008-7-20 21:24 編輯 ]

xiss 發表於 2008-7-20 22:51:57

Ceun kaw wa yant gònk gîn,jôy dài Yeùd yeú móng jàm---YEÙD YEÚ HÎB WŨI.

xiss 發表於 2008-7-21 00:00:38

至Hit字符集！
 
Testing VN Unicode Fonts (Microsoft Core Fonts)
Times New Roman (version 2.76 or later)
<DIV align=center>
<CENTER>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=7 width=500 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top width=114>A Á À Ả Ã Ạ Ă Ắ Ằ Ẳ Ẵ Ặ Â Ấ Ầ Ẩ Ẫ Ậ E É È Ẻ Ẽ Ẹ Ê Ế Ề Ể Ễ Ệ I Í Ì Ỉ Ĩ Ị O Ó Ò Ỏ Õ Ọ Ô Ố Ồ Ổ Ỗ Ộ Ơ Ớ Ờ Ở Ỡ Ợ U Ú Ù Ủ Ũ Ụ Ư Ứ Ừ Ử Ữ Ự Y Ý Ỳ Ỷ Ỹ Ỵ Ð</TD>
<TD vAlign=top width=79>a á à ả ã ạ ă ắ ằ ẳ ẵ ặ â ấ ầ ẩ ẫ ậ e é è ẻ ẽ ẹ ê ế ề ể ễ ệ i í ì ỉ ĩ ị o ó ò ỏ õ ọ ô ố ồ ổ ỗ ộ ơ ớ ờ ở ỡ ợ u ú ù ủ ũ ụ ư ứ ừ ử ữ ự y ý ỳ ỷ ỹ ỵ đ</TD>
<TD vAlign=top width=113>A Á À Ả Ã Ạ Ă Ắ Ằ Ẳ Ẵ Ặ Â Ấ Ầ Ẩ Ẫ Ậ E É È Ẻ Ẽ Ẹ Ê Ế Ề Ể Ễ Ệ I Í Ì Ỉ Ĩ Ị O Ó Ò Ỏ Õ Ọ Ô Ố Ồ Ổ Ỗ Ộ Ơ Ớ Ờ Ở Ỡ Ợ U Ú Ù Ủ Ũ Ụ Ư Ứ Ừ Ử Ữ Ự Y Ý Ỳ Ỷ Ỹ Ỵ Ð</TD>
<TD vAlign=top width=91>a á à ả ã ạ ă ắ ằ ẳ ẵ ặ â ấ ầ ẩ ẫ ậ e é è ẻ ẽ ẹ ê ế ề ể ễ ệ i í ì ỉ ĩ ị o ó ò ỏ õ ọ ô ố ồ ổ ỗ ộ ơ ớ ờ ở ỡ ợ u ú ù ủ ũ ụ ư ứ ừ ử ữ ự y ý ỳ ỷ ỹ ỵ đ</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER></DIV>
Arial (version 2.76 or later)
<DIV align=center>
<CENTER>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=7 width=500 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top width="27%">A Á À Ả Ã Ạ Ă Ắ Ằ Ẳ Ẵ Ặ Â Ấ Ầ Ẩ Ẫ Ậ E É È Ẻ Ẽ Ẹ Ê Ế Ề Ể Ễ Ệ I Í Ì Ỉ Ĩ Ị O Ó Ò Ỏ Õ Ọ Ô Ố Ồ Ổ Ỗ Ộ Ơ Ớ Ờ Ở Ỡ Ợ U Ú Ù Ủ Ũ Ụ Ư Ứ Ừ Ử Ữ Ự Y Ý Ỳ Ỷ Ỹ Ỵ Ð</TD>
<TD vAlign=top width="23%">a á à ả ã ạ ă ắ ằ ẳ ẵ ặ â ấ ầ ẩ ẫ ậ e é è ẻ ẽ ẹ ê ế ề ể ễ ệ i í ì ỉ ĩ ị o ó ò ỏ õ ọ ô ố ồ ổ ỗ ộ ơ ớ ờ ở ỡ ợ u ú ù ủ ũ ụ ư ứ ừ ử ữ ự y ý ỳ ỷ ỹ ỵ đ</TD>
<TD vAlign=top width="26%">A Á À Ả Ã Ạ Ă Ắ Ằ Ẳ Ẵ Ặ Â Ấ Ầ Ẩ Ẫ Ậ E É È Ẻ Ẽ Ẹ Ê Ế Ề Ể Ễ Ệ I Í Ì Ỉ Ĩ Ị O Ó Ò Ỏ Õ Ọ Ô Ố Ồ Ổ Ỗ Ộ Ơ Ớ Ờ Ở Ỡ Ợ U Ú Ù Ủ Ũ Ụ Ư Ứ Ừ Ử Ữ Ự Y Ý Ỳ Ỷ Ỹ Ỵ Ð</TD>
<TD vAlign=top width="24%">a á à ả ã ạ ă ắ ằ ẳ ẵ ặ â ấ ầ ẩ ẫ ậ e é è ẻ ẽ ẹ ê ế ề ể ễ ệ i í ì ỉ ĩ ị o ó ò ỏ õ ọ ô ố ồ ổ ỗ ộ ơ ớ ờ ở ỡ ợ u ú ù ủ ũ ụ ư ứ ừ ử ữ ự y ý ỳ ỷ ỹ ỵ đ</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER></DIV>
Courier New (version 2.76 or later)
<DIV align=center>
<CENTER>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=7 width=560 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top width="27%">A Á À Ả Ã Ạ Ă Ắ Ằ Ẳ Ẵ Ặ Â Ấ Ầ Ẩ Ẫ Ậ E É È Ẻ Ẽ Ẹ Ê Ế Ề Ể Ễ Ệ I Í Ì Ỉ Ĩ Ị O Ó Ò Ỏ Õ Ọ Ô Ố Ồ Ổ Ỗ Ộ Ơ Ớ Ờ Ở Ỡ Ợ U Ú Ù Ủ Ũ Ụ Ư Ứ Ừ Ử Ữ Ự Y Ý Ỳ Ỷ Ỹ Ỵ Ð</TD>
<TD vAlign=top width="23%">a á à ả ã ạ ă ắ ằ ẳ ẵ ặ â ấ ầ ẩ ẫ ậ e é è ẻ ẽ ẹ ê ế ề ể ễ ệ i í ì ỉ ĩ ị o ó ò ỏ õ ọ ô ố ồ ổ ỗ ộ ơ ớ ờ ở ỡ ợ u ú ù ủ ũ ụ ư ứ ừ ử ữ ự y ý ỳ ỷ ỹ ỵ đ</TD>
<TD vAlign=top width="27%">A Á À Ả Ã Ạ Ă Ắ Ằ Ẳ Ẵ Ặ Â Ấ Ầ Ẩ Ẫ Ậ E É È Ẻ Ẽ Ẹ Ê Ế Ề Ể Ễ Ệ I Í Ì Ỉ Ĩ Ị O Ó Ò Ỏ Õ Ọ Ô Ố Ồ Ổ Ỗ Ộ Ơ Ớ Ờ Ở Ỡ Ợ U Ú Ù Ủ Ũ Ụ Ư Ứ Ừ Ử Ữ Ự Y Ý Ỳ Ỷ Ỹ Ỵ Ð</TD>
<TD vAlign=top width="23%">a á à ả ã ạ ă ắ ằ ẳ ẵ ặ â ấ ầ ẩ ẫ ậ e é è ẻ ẽ ẹ ê ế ề ể ễ ệ i í ì ỉ ĩ ị o ó ò ỏ õ ọ ô ố ồ ổ ỗ ộ ơ ớ ờ ở ỡ ợ u ú ù ủ ũ ụ ư ứ ừ ử ữ ự y ý ỳ ỷ ỹ ỵ đ</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER></DIV>

頁: [1] 2

粵語協會's Archiver

越南字母拼寫粵語拼音

由楼主 DESMOND 发明