meallanfearghai 發表於 2009-7-28 17:28:44

新法蘭西語言學學院粵語拼音方案:斯拉夫字母和希臘字母版本

<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px LiHei Pro">斯拉夫字母版本:</p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px LiHei Pro">輔音:</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">б</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">п</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">м</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ф</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">д</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">т</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">н</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">л</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">г</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">κ</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ӈ[ŋ]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">х</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">гў</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">κў</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ў</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">џ/</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ч/</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">с</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">й</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px LiHei Pro">元音:</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">а</span>[<span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ɑ</span>]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ӑ</span>[<span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ɐ</span>]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">э</span>[<span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ɛ</span>]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">е</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">и/і</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ο</span>[<span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ɔ</span>]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ѹ</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">у</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ю</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">еѹ</span>[ø]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">э<span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ѹ</span>[<span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">œ</span>]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px LiHei Pro">尾音:</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">-п[-p]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">-т[-t]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">-к[-k]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">-м[-m]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">-н[-n]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">-<span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ӈ</span>[-<span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ŋ</span>]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">-и/і[-i][-y]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">-у[-u]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue; min-height: 22.0px"><br></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue; min-height: 22.0px">希臘字母版本:</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px LiHei Pro">輔音:</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">μβ</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">π</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">μ</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">φ</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">νδ</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">τ</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ν</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">λ</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">γκ</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">κ</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">νγ[ŋ]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">χ</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">γκοὑ</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">κοὑ</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">οὑ</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">δζ/</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">τσ/</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">σ</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">γἱ</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px LiHei Pro">元音:</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">α</span>[<span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ɑ</span>]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ὰ</span>[<span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ɐ</span>]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ε</span>[<span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ɛ</span>]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">η</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ι</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ο</span>[<span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ɔ</span>]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ω</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ου</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">υ</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">εο</span>[ø]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">εου<span style="font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">[</span>œ<span style="font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">]</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px LiHei Pro">尾音:</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">-π[-p]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">-<span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">τ</span>[-t]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">-<span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">κ</span>[-k]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">-<span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">μ</span>[-m]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">-<span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ν</span>[-n]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">-<span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">νγ</span>[-<span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ŋ</span>]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">-<span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ι</span>[-i][-y]</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">-<span style="font: 18.0px Lucida Grande">ου</span>[-u]</p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue"><br></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">註:</p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">1。以上兩套方案可以與拉丁字母方案互換使用;</p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">2。以上兩套方案主要用作對外推廣粵語,不提倡用作標音或正音工作;</p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica Neue">3。在希臘字母方案中,在ι或者ου上加上「῾」號表示用作輔音,不加時用作元音或尾音。</p>

xiss 發表於 2009-7-28 17:34:43

哇,么原來世界上有咁多人設計粵語方案咖?連呢啲字母都有??<br>

meallanfearghai 發表於 2009-7-28 17:48:04

原帖由 <i>xiss</i> 於 2009-7-28 01:34 發表 <a href="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/redirect.php?goto=findpost&amp;pid=149142&amp;ptid=17457" target="_blank"><img src="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/images/common/back.gif" border="0" onclick="zoom(this)" onload="attachimg(this, 'load')" alt=""></a>
哇,么原來世界上有咁多人設計粵語方案咖?連呢啲字母都有??
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 22px;"><br></span></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FFFFFF"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: large;">呢</span></font><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: sans-serif; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FFFFFF"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: large;">啲設計者先至係第一班食螃蟹嘅人!因為希臘字母同斯拉夫字母都無法單獨表示粵語當中複雜嘅複元音,要砌呢啲複元音出來,肚裡邊無返些少墨水都好難做到!</span></font></span></div>

xiss 發表於 2009-7-28 17:59:15

原帖由 <i>meallanfearghai</i> 於 2009-7-28 17:48 發表 <a href="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/redirect.php?goto=findpost&amp;pid=149148&amp;ptid=17457" target="_blank"><img src="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/images/common/back.gif" onclick="zoom(this)" onload="attachimg(this, 'load')" alt="" border="0"></a><div style="color: Black;"><font class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: large;">呢</span></font><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: sans-serif;"><font class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: large;">啲設計者先至係第一班食螃蟹嘅人!因為希臘字母同斯拉夫字母都無法單獨表示粵語當中複雜嘅複元音,要砌呢啲複元音出來,肚裡邊無返些少墨水都好難做到!</span></font></span></div>&nbsp; <br>噉其實,宜家咁多使用英文字母嚟到設計嘅粵語拼音方案,都將呢啲復雜元音砌得好好吖。<br>

[ 本帖最後由 xiss 於 2009-7-28 18:01 編輯 ]

meallanfearghai 發表於 2009-7-29 03:58:33

原帖由 <i>xiss</i> 於 2009-7-28 01:59 發表 <a href="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/redirect.php?goto=findpost&amp;pid=149158&amp;ptid=17457" target="_blank"><img src="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/images/common/back.gif" border="0" onclick="zoom(this)" onload="attachimg(this, 'load')" alt=""></a>
噉其實,宜家咁多使用英文字母嚟到設計嘅粵語拼音方案,都將呢啲復雜元音砌得好好吖。
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 22px;"><br></span></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FFFFFF"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: large;">首先,「英文字母」呢個講法唔準確,應該用「拉丁字母」。</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FFFFFF"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: large;">其次,<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">拉丁字母</font></span></font><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: sans-serif; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FFFFFF"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: large;">喺<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">2600幾年</font>嘅推廣當中,好多字母嘅發音都已經<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF0000">同佢地嘅原始發音<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">相差甚遠</span>。</font>例如g喺拉丁語裡面祇能發音,但係喺現代意大利語中可以發(如Giovanni),喺西班牙語中可以發(如Getafe),喺法語中可以發[ȝ](如géographie),喺尼德蘭語中可以發[ɣ](如Gelderland),喺瑞典語中可以發(如Vaggeryd)。加上好多使用拉丁字母嘅語言已經製造出一些特別嘅字母組合以表示一些特別嘅單元音或複元音(例如eu喺尼德蘭語中發[ø],喺德語中發[ɔø]),所以要引進現成嘅拉丁字母組合或者創造新嘅拉丁字母組合,喺語言學方面都唔會引起太大異議。</span></font></span></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="sans-serif"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FFFFFF"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: large;">但係<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">希臘字母</font>同<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#00FF00">斯拉夫字母</font>就唔同:呢兩種字母系統喺咁多年嘅推廣當中,今日嘅字母發音同<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#00FF00">千幾</font>(斯拉夫字母)<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">兩千幾年前</font>(希臘字母)嘅字母發音<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#800080"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">並無明顯差異</span></font>,有啲甚至<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#800080"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">完全一樣</span></font>。咁樣一來,要創造新嘅字母組合用來表示複雜嘅元音,就遠遠比用拉丁字母要困難。所以現代好多使用斯拉夫字母嘅語言都係通過<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#00FF00">製造新字母</font>或者<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#00FF00">喺原有字母上面加註標音符號</font>來表示特有發音。而以上方案,(如果呢位先生/女士識得希臘字母同埋/或者斯拉夫字母嘅發音嘅話,)可以睇得出:祇係停留喺用字母現有嘅發音來堆砌變元音或者複元音呢個階段。因為設計者認為:再製造新字母祇會令情況越搞越亂。</span></font></font></div>

嶺南散人 發表於 2009-7-29 11:19:10

惟國際音標能一之

xiss 發表於 2009-7-29 17:16:10

原帖由 <i>meallanfearghai</i> 於 2009-7-29 03:58 發表 <a href="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/redirect.php?goto=findpost&amp;pid=149269&amp;ptid=17457" target="_blank"><img src="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/images/common/back.gif" onclick="zoom(this)" onload="attachimg(this, 'load')" alt="" border="0"></a>

首先,「英文字母」呢個講法唔準確,應該用「拉丁字母」。其次,拉丁字母喺2600幾年嘅推廣當中,好多字母嘅發音都已經同佢地嘅原始發音相差甚遠。例如g喺拉丁語裡面祇能發音,但係喺現代意大利語中可以發(如Giovanni),喺 ... <br>其實,不管佢嘅發音有冇變化。<br>呢啲都唔係我哋制定拼音嘅考慮因素。<br>關鍵在于,群眾基礎,多唔多人識。<br>你認為,喺中華地區,係拉丁字母多人識呢?定係「希臘字母」呢??定係「斯拉夫」呢??<br><br>如果你話一字一音,國際音標都得啦。<br><br>所以我話,希臘字母發音冇邊道呢種講法,似乎唔代表佢有幾多優勢。<br>

meallanfearghai 發表於 2009-7-30 01:06:00

原帖由 <i>xiss</i> 於 2009-7-29 01:16 發表 <a href="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/redirect.php?goto=findpost&amp;pid=149349&amp;ptid=17457" target="_blank"><img src="http://bbs.cantonese.asia/images/common/back.gif" border="0" onclick="zoom(this)" onload="attachimg(this, 'load')" alt=""></a>
其實,不管佢嘅發音有冇變化。呢啲都唔係我哋制定拼音嘅考慮因素。關鍵在于,群眾基礎,多唔多人識。你認為,喺中華地區,係拉丁字母多人識呢?定係「希臘字母」呢??定係「斯拉夫」呢??如果你話一字一音,國際音標都得啦。所以我話,希臘 ...
<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 22px;"><br></span></div><div>所以設計者先至咁強調「<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue'; font-size: 18px; border-collapse: collapse; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#00FF00">以上兩套方案主要用作對外推廣粵語,不提倡用作標音或正音工作</font><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; ">」。</span></span></div>

penkyamp 發表於 2009-7-30 08:41:39

斯拉夫字母系唔兴复合字母表单元音嘅。<br><br>可幸楼顶入边嘅全部复合字母表单元音,全部可以去苏联突厥民族语言入边去揾出单字母表单元音嘅例子。<br>
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